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I agree Bill we dont do that, but we are violent in a diferent way, when 9/11 I remember Bush at church saying whe crhistians are the good one and you are the evil and we killed thousands of them ans also inocent people with weapons, bombs etc, so whats the diference.
The difference is the same as the guy who punches someone back after getting hit and why he's justified while the guy who started the fight is an asshole.
Not aiming for civilians just to name one difference.
<span>USA punched another guy who didn't hit first. Also, we don't really behave well at all...while we're busy talking good about democracy as a form of government we support non-democracies and while we talk about human rights we're at the same time busy arming the rest of the world. </span>
Andy´s got a bee in his (silver) bonnet, I like it. He´s not letting this one go, which is good. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_1999http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2000http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2001http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2002http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2003Oh yes, CLEARLY all these terrorist bombings and killings are reactions to our evil ways and has NOTHING to do with the violent nature of the religion itself. Oh those POOR Muslims! If we just hug them really tightly and give them everything they demand then surely that's the best way obtain peace. Yeah appeasement.
This is still a dramatic generalization of a very complex religion, which is par for the course because the media would prefer the image of islam only be presented as one of violent reaction. It makes it easier to do their jobs if they can present an "enemy" and an institution that stands in defience to our "enlightened" society. This generalization is being thrust upon about a quarter of the population of the world, keep that in mind.
It's a mix of both really. One could for instance say that the 1953 coup lead to the 1979 revolution... sorry but one cannot say that we're guilt free.How Terrorist Groups EndHow do terrorist groups end? The evidence since 1968 indicates that terrorist groups rarely cease to exist as a result of winning or losing a military campaign. Rather, most groups end because of operations carried out by local police or intelligence agencies or because they join the political process. This suggests that the United States should pursue a counterterrorism strategy against al Qa'ida that emphasizes policing and intelligence gathering rather than a “war on terrorism” approach that relies heavily on military force.http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/index1.htmlhttp://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9351/images/figure1.gif
You know, that wasn't at all what he said! We can actually find valid things to criticize about you too, without supporting "the poor muslims". If we are against stuff that one party does, it doesn't mean that we automatically support all the stuff the other party does!
He started with "<span><span>USA punched another guy who didn't hit first." As far as I know 9/11 wasn't instigated by us. And we've tried peace negotiations, appeasement, free trade, open war, sanctions, and now Islamic people who wer eraised in the UK and US are becoming more and more fanatical. Sometimes hatred is the only rational response. Fuck Islam.</span></span>
<span>Sorry but Wolfowitz himself said that we had them pissed off because we had troops in "holy" Saudi-arabia.Some parts of the 9/11 commission also says that part of it is because of blowbacks. And Blair said that UK would pay a blood price for getting involved with Iraq.Consequences... they'll happen, to us too.Here Ron Paul mentions a couple of them:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH3GO-XWGwsI agree about fuck Islam, but most muslims couldn't care less about what we do. At any case I don't see how they attacked us for our freedom (which certainly was the ultimate BS along with the WMD nonsense and that Iraq had something to do with 9/11):http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/154/26740.htmlA Pentagon report backs it up:'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.'</span>
So then answer this. DO you think that the US, UK, etc... should have attacked Afghanistan after 9/11?
Many catch 22's here actually, but probably yes. I also pretty much agree with Hitchens when he said that since Saddam was for so long supported by USA, it was the responsibility of USA to have Saddam removed again. I do however not think that this might even have a lot to do with terrorism or liberation, but rather to secure oil wealthy country, to have a permanent presence in the area. And the idea seems to be the same with Iran (but I digress)I don't think USA intends to ever leave Iraq for instance...and the consequences could certainly lead to more costly blowbacks.Part of Osama's goal is supposedly to bankrupt USA (like what happened to Sovietunion), and if USA is overwhelmingly involved in the middle-east with a too large military chances become much higher for bankruptcy to actually happen. Enough military adventures...slow down.
Oddly then despite my more hardline rhetoric, I was and am vehemently opposed to US operations in Iraq, and CERTAINLY wouldn't want us to go to war with Iran (unless Iran really did make and use an atomic bomb of course.) I'm very unsettled by how dispassionate you seem while advocating larger military action than I find acceptable. That was not the answer I expected at all, nor do I really understand you position.
I don't think one could leave 9/11 unresponded...but I think it went overboard way too fast. Again, there are lot of damned if you do and damned if don't... so it is difficult to articulate just how I would have chosen to respond, but it's not like my opinion really even mattered.My long stance about the Iraq was is to be against it, but since it was pretty certain that it would happen and did happen I'm glad Saddam was ousted. I think the way of doing it was extremely bloody and I never believed in any sort of three week war and whatever bogus we were sold the war with.
<span>I also think that that the downings street memos as well as other info is enough to put a lot of people on "our" side on trial. Not to mention on how much Saddam was supported when he was "our" butcher. I am certainly for the decreasing of the size of the military industrial complex...most wars are sold on lies.</span>
Alright for any liberal idiots on here. Do you wack jobs understand that these Islam radicals want to cut your balls off? Stop sticking up for them. They hate you. America has nothing to do with it. Those jerk offs don't get along with anyone. Sunnis and Shiites blow each other up....you have Christian slavery in Sudan..... My point is if America was not on the map they would have conflicts with other countries. You can't please those scum no matter what you do.
<span>Intolerant atheists are the worst. Look at the hate mongers Christopher hitchens. Very dangerous. The statements that he makes are asinine. Yeah..I'm sure all religious people are evil. Right. How narrow minded. Throughout history secularists have killed millions. The crusades only killed thousands. However I give Hitchins credit for tearing Islam in half. But overall it's the new atheist movement that's a major threat. 3 worlds biggest murderers were all atheist. So you can all shut up and quit your religion bashing and tell your hypocrite leader Stalin Hitchins to shut his mouth. That fat slob. He's miserable. He needs religion perhaps for comfort. My god!!!!! I'm not even religious but I see how hateful you atheist scum are. You are all just insecure and afraid that perhaps there is a boss upstairs who will judge you. Just face it..that's what this is really about it. No moral authority. What does Hitchins or Maher do for humanity??? Nothing</span>
Sorry... I just had a debate about this..."Throughout history secularists have killed millions."Ha, nobody kills because they're atheists... that's ridiculous. No one runs into a building and blows themselves up screaming “god doesn’t exist.” However you find people running into buildings all the time screaming “allahu akbar.” There is no logical pathway between atheism and killing others. On the other hand, though, there’s a logical pathway between religion and/killing/murdering/xenophobia/misogyny/slavery/ignorance. “god told me to do it” is the best reason to do these things. I’ll demonstrate:-The hierarchy of religion creates xenophobia. When you think you are the chosen one, and everyone else is going to hell, this creates unnecessary demarcations between the human species. -Go read the article, When God Sanctions Killing, The People Listen. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070223143009.htmThe basic finds are that believers are more aggressive than nonbelievers when they are read passages from their holy texts that incite violence. They do not act aggressively if you give them the same passage, but remove the words “I the lord command” and source it from “a scroll found from an archaeological expedition.”-Go read the article Brain Differences Found Between Believers In God And Non-Believershttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090304160400.htm- Believers’ anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), signalling when attention and control are needed, showed significantly less activity. This means less stress because mistakes are disregarded. So for simple questions they will answer more correctly because of less stress, but in complex questions they will not mind making a mistake and try to fix it.-Go read the article Brain shuts off in response to healer’s prayerhttp://derrenbrown.co.uk/blog/2010/05/brain-shuts-response-healers-prayer/- Vigilance -The process of paying close and continuous attention- Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), Schjødt and his colleagues scanned the brains of 20 Pentecostalists and 20 non-believers while playing them recorded prayers. The volunteers were told that six of the prayers were read by a non-Christian, six by an ordinary Christian and six by a healer. In fact, all were read by ordinary Christians.- Only in the devout volunteers did the brain activity monitored by the researchers change in response to the prayers. Parts of the prefrontal and anterior cingulate cortices, which play key roles in vigilance and scepticism when judging the truth and importance of what people say, were deactivated when the subjects listened to a supposed healer. Activity diminished to a lesser extent when the speaker was supposedly a normal ChristianHmm let’s read some passages from the religion of peace:Qur'an:9:88- “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."Qur'an:9:5 - "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war." Qur'an:9:112- “The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed."Qur'an:9:29 - "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission." Ishaq:325 - "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious." Qur'an:8:39 - "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah." Qur'an:8:39 - "So fight them until there is no more [...]
Ahh, the voice of reason and rationality. Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could ship of the Floyds and all the Bin Ladens and have 'em duke it out somewhere.Interesting to note that '84 isn't opposed to the majority view here, only the miopic, reactionary crush-their-balls response that has been the scourge of this planet since this magnificent species first walked upright.
Hypocrite, Stalin, dangerous, fatslob atheist Hitchens. But when it comes to Muslims, he's my guy!!How typically Christian, and one reason why I pull my punches when criticising other religions around them.
And you of course sound very happy..LMFAO
Hey John.... not even christian here if you read my comment. It just seems to me the muslims commiting all violence in religion right now..thats why hitchens does come in handy....
"The crusades only killed thousands."Yeah, and if they had had modern weaponry and technology, then how many would have been killed you think? It isn't like the lesser numbers was from lack of trying, you know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_CrusadeClose to a million for simply believing in the wrong things.And all one ever needs to say about christianity is that WWI and WWII would not have happened without Christians.
I have yet to read a worthy comment box in this site.
Okay, I personally Bill Maher was completely out of line in his rant above. Bill Maher mocks all religion but he has a unique and special bias and hate against Islam. He says as much. The most absurd portion of his comment is his claim that somehow Islam is uniquely predisposed to violence as against other faiths.This article nails him: http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/05/bill-maher-sounds-like-jerry-falwell/
"ShowABCShow" Please read carefully what the Holy Quran says before making comments.Its either you knew what the verses are talking about but just decided to ignore the real meaning(which i dont think so) OR you really had no idea what the verses were talking about.As for the verses in chapter 9.there are conditions behind the slaughtering and kiliing...read chapter 9:1-4.the condition is that "if the pagans(unbelievers) violated treaties made with muslims, muslims should denounce the treaties, and after 4 months, if the pagans still continue to violate the conditions of the treaties(killing , fighting harassing muslims) only then should muslims fight back". That is what the verse was talking about and not as you pointed out. Had the verse meant as you think, then why are you still alive? for i believe there are muslims around you. NO, the verse doesnot promote any violence but sense of self defence.And as for verse in chapter 8:39"And fight them on until there IS NO MORE TUMULT OR OPPRESSION......."suprisingly you skipped the part "until there in no more tumult or oppression"its a conditional statement which allows muslims to fight ONLY IF there is tumult or oppresion against muslims, that means if there is no tumult and oppression there should be no more war. AGAIN you can see its talking about self defense.Please take time to read the Quran and not just verses pointed out to you, for they single out verses so as to bash islam.The prophet(PBUH) said, "He whoevers kills a man is as if he killed the whole mankind, and he whoever helps a man is as if he helped the whole mankind"these are the teachings of islam and not as the media present them.
<span>"ShowABCShow" Please read carefully what the Holy Quran says before making comments. Its either you knew what the verses are talking about but just decided to ignore the real meaning(which i dont think so) OR you really had no idea what the verses were talking about. As for the verses in chapter 9. there are conditions behind the slaughtering and kiliing... read chapter 9:1-4. the condition is that "if the pagans(unbelievers) violated treaties made with muslims, muslims should denounce the treaties, and after 4 months, if the pagans still continue to violate the conditions of the treaties(killing , fighting harassing muslims) only then should muslims fight back". That is what the verse was talking about and not as you pointed out. Had the verse meant as you think, then why are you still alive? for i believe there are muslims around you. NO, the verse doesnot promote any violence but sense of self defence. And as for verse in chapter 8:39 "And fight them on until there IS NO MORE TUMULT OR OPPRESSION......." suprisingly you skipped the part "until there in no more tumult or oppression" its a conditional statement which allows muslims to fight ONLY IF there is tumult or oppresion against muslims, that means if there is no tumult and oppression there should be no more war. AGAIN you can see its talking about self defense. Please take time to read the Quran and not just verses pointed out to you, for they single out verses so as to bash islam. The prophet(PBUH) said, "He whoevers kills a man is as if he killed the whole mankind, and he whoever helps a man is as if he helped the whole mankind" these are the teachings of islam and not as the media present them.</span>
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