It is really galling that bad people get into heaven too - all those investments & down payments I have made to get there count for nothing? I have to share heaven with scumbags? NO WAY!
<p><span>Is it ‘after-life’ evidence or, is it ‘near death’ ample evidence of the heaven above?</span> </p><p><span>If this is a ‘near death’ scientific evidence, on what side of death we are talking about ?</span> </p><p><span>Is this a scientific evidence supplied by the countless thousands of people who definitively died and then came back to tell us the story (everyday, quite common occurrence - if I may add) about the beauty of living in paradise, sitting to the right side of the lord and how the baby Geezas really looks like or, <span> </span>is it<span> </span>‘near death’ evidence only, delivered by those (not so lucky) individuals who didn’t quite died and they just did some heavenly window shopping and they tasted only the ecstasy of living again next to god and playing harp and thanking him ( her, it ?) and singing songs to the almighty while laying down flat on their faces.</span> </p><p><span>I thought that father O’Reilly is presiding alone in his mysterious world of total idiocy.</span> </p><p><span>Oh, how wrong I was.</span> </p><p><span> </span> </p><p><span>Peace be with you, brothers and sisters.</span></p>
No Bill. If you're an 'evil' catholic, then three hail mary's and and its a clean slate. Satan lost Mussolini this way. Jutsas they were thightening the noose, he said "Mea Regretti!" and bang, straight to the pearly gates.
Is this really the best evidence he can come up with?
Consistency? Some very vague, and in fact, expected consistencies.
Family members are an obvious psychological focus. 90%+ of the 13,000 people, I can confidently say, believed in God. What he probably left out, is that the majority of experiences contradict in respect to the identity of this deity. The bright light, tunnel vision, etc. All explainable by neurobiological theories.
Wait, did he even go into the neuroscience of NDE? Bill also needs to learn how to be skeptical... That was pathetic.
Also, from the link someone provided on this man's book above...
"He mentions that at the time the book was published, the data was from "more than 1300 people who had a near-death experience." Long's website now claims it has received over 2000 such testimonials. Yes, ALL of the data used in this "research" was submitted via an electronic form and testimonials from people who simply visited his website and claim to have had a near-death experience. Readers, expect periodic lessons on the scientific method throughout these review posts."
Everyone interested in NDE's and cutting out the pseudoscience, be on the lookout for a book by Kevin Nelson MD whenever it comes out (I know him but I don't know his process on his book other than that it's being edited or something). He did a bit more rigorous of a study on NDEs that will probably wash out somewhere between theism and atheism, because a scientific explanation exists when an NDE occurs (as he's stated on Sanjay Gupta's CNN special "cheating death"), but to my knowledge there might still be a spiritual element. Whether that proves an existence of any specific deity is still up for debate.
All hearsay. All testimonials. No evidence. NDEs have been artificially created hundreds of times in NASA centrifuges during astronaut training. Those NDEs were similar to the ones described here. (See the Penn & Teller B*****T episdode among other shows.) And that's exactly what this "proof" is too.
The book description on Amazon.com says there are 1,600 NDE accounts, yet Long says 1,300 in this interview. Also, the last line of the book description says: "Dr. Long explains how medical evidence fails to explain these reports and why there is only one plausible explanation—that people have survived death and traveled to another dimension." That has to be a joke, right? "Medical evidence fails?"
I think it's sad that Dr. Long doesn't consider that NDEs are in fact a phenomena of the brain that, as Steve mentioned in his comment, can be recreated under controlled conditions (gotta love Penn & Teller and their crack shot research team). As Neil deGrasse Tyson would similarly say, Dr. Long has concluded a metaphysical hypothesis at the limits of his scientific understanding. Also, Mark's opening comment summed it up nicely: Dr. Long has proven that the human brain plays specific kinds of tricks on one's consciousness when a NDE occurs, and these tricks manifest in similar results from person to person.
Frankly, to claim that people "traveled to another dimension" requires one to first prove that human consciousness is separate or can separate from the body and breach the boundaries of our reality into another one. Yet, as Antonio Damasio showed in Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain, there is no "mind" separate from the "body." What we conceive of as "mind" is limited by the experiences of the "body," ergo NDEs are purely a phenomena of the "body" reacting to specific conditions. It's just too bad that people brought up in a religious doctrine shield themselves from this understanding (either consciously or unconsciously), which would demolish not only their interpretations of NDEs as supporting the metaphysics they were brought up believing, but demolish their worldview entirely.
I love how Bill can't get past his own Catholic upbringing that bad people like Hitler would experience the same thing as good people in a NDE. It's no wonder he was "skeptical" of the findings since the conclusion that everyone will "go to Heaven" (to put it bluntly) is too destructive to his worldview.
What a total lack of skepticism! He's allowed to introduce himself as 'not a religious man.' Yet he mulls around some nebulous touchy-feely version of heaven (this new-age interpretation of heaven is what annoys O'Reilly. Not the speculations of the existence of heaven from a supposedly non-religious person). I've seen a facinating documentary on this subject, "God on the Brain," which soberingly admits there is so much we don't yet know. Neuroscience like this is such an interesting subject, and it is a disservice to the actual scientists involved to resort to the same anecdotes and armchair speculation in lieu of meaningful research.
There is no evidence for the afterlife or a god. I discovered a great website that has fabulous articles on evolution and debunks the Bible and Christianity. WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM
A lot of things happen in your mind when trauma occurs. The mind is more powerful than we can imagine. I've had seizures that cause me to see images flashing across my path of vision right before it occurs. This is not my "life passing before my eyes." It is simply my brain going through processes that I, as a normal everyday citizen, do not understand.
I think that is what it all comes down to. Our brains are smarter than we are, and when they actually do something without our consent we think it is god. HA!
December 26th 1986 I was in an auto accident. I was propelled through the windshield of my car and suffered from a skull fractured in multipls places, fractured eye socket, broken cheek bone, broken nose, broken jaw, and i recieved over 100 sutures to close the various lacerations. I 'died" for about a minute. NO light, no tunnel,no family, just nothing.......Thats my NDE for what its worth, as valid as any other......sorry if I dissapointed any religous folks but death was like sleep w/o any cool dreams.
Atheism is not consistent with logic. It can be logically seen without respect to any religion that an infinite intelligence exists who is responsible for creating and sustaining our universe. This can be seen by using exactly the same logic as is used in the science of archeology, and applying it to more fuhndamental questions such as: "How did the dimensions of time and space, matter, energy, and life come to exist from nothing?" Just as archeological artifacts imply the existence of their intelligent creators, and the complexity of the objects reflect the intelligence of the objects creators, so do the existence of time, space, matter, energy, and life imply the existence of an infinite intelligence who trancends time, space, matter, energy, and life, who by definition is "God The Creator and Sustainer". Just as it would be illogical and incorrect to say that archeological artifacts randomly evolved from dirt, it would be illogical and incorrect to say that the dimensions of time and space, matter energy and life randomly evolved from nothing.
<p><span><span><span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>Atheism<span> </span>IS consistent with logic. It is consistent with logic to such degree that, if by any miraculous occurrence ( ask any of the reigning gods. They are experts on that sort of <span> </span>miracles.) - the logic disappear, <span> </span>the atheism goes with it as well.<span> </span>And, the reason.<span> </span>And,<span> </span>the rationality. And, the wisdom.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>The atheists of the world go down the toilet. No logic out there – no room for atheism.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>What kind of philosophy would exists then in such sterile environment ?</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>The religion !</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span></span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>continues below...</span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span>Atheism is not consistent with logic. continues...</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span></span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>The religion !</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>The religion doesn’t need any logic. The religion needs something of a completely different dimension. Something much more potent than logic.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>The religion needs a faith. Faith is a sacred word of the very essence of the religion. Logic kills religion. Faith makes it thrive. Logic is a poisonous virus and, if inflicted within the body of the religion – makes that incredible powerful organism die irrevocably. </span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>And, I repeat: The religion is the most powerful element of known to us civilization. Nobody can deny that. Roughly, <span> </span>90-95% of the world population observe the religious practises, teachings, philosophy and its moralistic (?) guidance.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>Simple conclusion would suggest that the 95% of the homo primates on earth are possessing the very special ( god given) gifts of understanding the principia of biological life without employing the logic of the understanding the biological life’s principia. The magical formula ‘ God did it’ works seamlessly smooth. It’s an incredibly relaxing formula. It substitutes the logic incredibly well.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>Even a slightest insertion of a logic virus <span> </span>into religion ( like the question: “How he did it” ? ) can completely ruin that blessed state of the brain’s idling and long lasting orgasm of total satisfaction.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>On the other hand – the remaining 5% of the world population ( atheists, scientists, free thinkers, high IQ fuckups) must be ( quite obviously) a delusional gang of complete idiots who are trying to find the logic in all that mess out there. </span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>And, I repeat: Quite obviously.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>C’mon guys.. Get real. Have a beer instead. Religion is here to stay. For a loooong time. Excruciating long time.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>Mind boggling long time.</span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span> </span></span></span> </p><p><span><span><span>Bless ya’ all.</span></span></span></p>
<span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span><span> continues...</span><span> </span> <span> </span> <span>The religion !</span><span> </span> <span>The religion doesn’t need any logic. The religion needs something of a completely different dimension. Something much more potent than logic.</span><span> </span> <span>The religion needs a faith. Faith is a sacred word of the very essence of the religion. Logic kills religion. Faith makes it thrive. Logic is a poisonous virus and, if inflicted within the body of the religion – makes that incredible powerful organism die irrevocably. </span><span> </span> <span>And, I repeat: The religion is the most powerful element of known to us civilization. Nobody can deny that. Roughly,<span> </span>90-95% of the world population observe the religious practises, teachings, philosophy and its moralistic (?) guidance.</span><span> </span> <span>Simple conclusion would suggest that the 95% of the homo primates on earth are possessing the very special ( god given) gifts of understanding the principia of biological life without employing the logic of the understanding the biological life’s principia. The magical formula ‘ God did it’ works seamlessly smooth. It’s an incredibly relaxing formula. It substitutes the logic incredibly well.</span><span> </span> <span>Even a slightest insertion of a logic virus<span> </span>into religion ( like the question: “How he did it” ? ) can completely ruin that blessed state of the brain’s idling and long lasting orgasm of total, highly spirited satisfaction.</span><span> </span> <span></span> <span>continues below...</span>
<span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span><span> continues...</span><span> </span> <span> </span> <span>On the other hand – the remaining 5% of the world population ( atheists, scientists, free thinkers, high IQ nerds and fuckups) must be ( quite obviously) a delusional gang of complete idiots who are trying to find some logic in all that mess out there. </span><span> </span> <span>And, I repeat: Quite obviously.</span><span> </span> <span></span> <span>C’mon guys.. Get real. Have a beer instead. Religion is here to stay. For a loooong time. Excruciatingly painful long time.</span><span> </span> <span>Mind boggling long time.</span><span> </span> <span> </span><span> </span> <span>Bless ya’ all.</span><span></span>
27 comments:
So, the good doctor has proven that near death experiences do indeed happen. WTG doc! Now, what about that after-life thing?
Bill-O keeps asking about the experiences of evil people. Is he worried?
It is really galling that bad people get into heaven too - all those investments & down payments I have made to get there count for nothing? I have to share heaven with scumbags? NO WAY!
"The first part in our new in-depth book review of Evidence of the Afterlife, The Science of Near-Death Experiences by Jeffrey Long and Paul Perry."
http://www.ziztur.com/2010/02/evidence-of-afterlife-im-skeptical.html
<p><span>Is it ‘after-life’ evidence or, is it ‘near death’ ample evidence of the heaven above?</span>
</p><p><span>If this is a ‘near death’ scientific evidence, on what side of death we are talking about ?</span>
</p><p><span>Is this a scientific evidence supplied by the countless thousands of people who definitively died and then came back to tell us the story (everyday, quite common occurrence - if I may add) about the beauty of living in paradise, sitting to the right side of the lord and how the baby Geezas really looks like or, <span> </span>is it<span> </span>‘near death’ evidence only, delivered by those (not so lucky) individuals who didn’t quite died and they just did some heavenly window shopping and they tasted only the ecstasy of living again next to god and playing harp and thanking him ( her, it ?) and singing songs to the almighty while laying down flat on their faces.</span>
</p><p><span>I thought that father O’Reilly is presiding alone in his mysterious world of total idiocy.</span>
</p><p><span>Oh, how wrong I was.</span>
</p><p><span> </span>
</p><p><span>Peace be with you, brothers and sisters.</span></p>
You just typed a single sentence that contains 116 words while not making any sense. Congratulations.
No Bill. If you're an 'evil' catholic, then three hail mary's and and its a clean slate. Satan lost Mussolini this way. Jutsas they were thightening the noose, he said "Mea Regretti!" and bang, straight to the pearly gates.
MenInFroxNews.
I think a neurlogist/psychologist opinion on near death experience what I prefer to read dealing with such subject.
Is this really the best evidence he can come up with?
Consistency? Some very vague, and in fact, expected consistencies.
Family members are an obvious psychological focus.
90%+ of the 13,000 people, I can confidently say, believed in God. What he probably left out, is that the majority of experiences contradict in respect to the identity of this deity.
The bright light, tunnel vision, etc. All explainable by neurobiological theories.
Wait, did he even go into the neuroscience of NDE?
Bill also needs to learn how to be skeptical... That was pathetic.
Geez Louise.
Oops. I meant 1,300 people.
Also, from the link someone provided on this man's book above...
"He mentions that at the time the book was published, the data was from "more than 1300 people who had a near-death experience." Long's website now claims it has received over 2000 such testimonials. Yes, ALL of the data used in this "research" was submitted via an electronic form and testimonials from people who simply visited his website and claim to have had a near-death experience. Readers, expect periodic lessons on the scientific method throughout these review posts."
Lol.
Everyone interested in NDE's and cutting out the pseudoscience, be on the lookout for a book by Kevin Nelson MD whenever it comes out (I know him but I don't know his process on his book other than that it's being edited or something). He did a bit more rigorous of a study on NDEs that will probably wash out somewhere between theism and atheism, because a scientific explanation exists when an NDE occurs (as he's stated on Sanjay Gupta's CNN special "cheating death"), but to my knowledge there might still be a spiritual element. Whether that proves an existence of any specific deity is still up for debate.
http://www.neurology.org/cgi/content/abstract/66/7/1003
Interesting.... never really thought about 'evil people' having NDE before - sme good observations!
Funny how none of these NDE ever reveal information about anything the subject didn't already know - or do they?
I would believe in life after death / NDE if the subject revealed information that there was no way they could have known before!
you might think that theists could live without brain, but they can't, so their life ends with death; that's the f****** point of dying!
All hearsay. All testimonials. No evidence.
NDEs have been artificially created hundreds of times in NASA centrifuges during astronaut training. Those NDEs were similar to the ones described here. (See the Penn & Teller B*****T episdode among other shows.) And that's exactly what this "proof" is too.
The book description on Amazon.com says there are 1,600 NDE accounts, yet Long says 1,300 in this interview. Also, the last line of the book description says: "Dr. Long explains how medical evidence fails to explain these reports and why there is only one plausible explanation—that people have survived death and traveled to another dimension." That has to be a joke, right? "Medical evidence fails?"
I think it's sad that Dr. Long doesn't consider that NDEs are in fact a phenomena of the brain that, as Steve mentioned in his comment, can be recreated under controlled conditions (gotta love Penn & Teller and their crack shot research team). As Neil deGrasse Tyson would similarly say, Dr. Long has concluded a metaphysical hypothesis at the limits of his scientific understanding. Also, Mark's opening comment summed it up nicely: Dr. Long has proven that the human brain plays specific kinds of tricks on one's consciousness when a NDE occurs, and these tricks manifest in similar results from person to person.
Frankly, to claim that people "traveled to another dimension" requires one to first prove that human consciousness is separate or can separate from the body and breach the boundaries of our reality into another one. Yet, as Antonio Damasio showed in Descartes' Error: Emotion, Reason, and the Human Brain, there is no "mind" separate from the "body." What we conceive of as "mind" is limited by the experiences of the "body," ergo NDEs are purely a phenomena of the "body" reacting to specific conditions. It's just too bad that people brought up in a religious doctrine shield themselves from this understanding (either consciously or unconsciously), which would demolish not only their interpretations of NDEs as supporting the metaphysics they were brought up believing, but demolish their worldview entirely.
I love how Bill can't get past his own Catholic upbringing that bad people like Hitler would experience the same thing as good people in a NDE. It's no wonder he was "skeptical" of the findings since the conclusion that everyone will "go to Heaven" (to put it bluntly) is too destructive to his worldview.
What a total lack of skepticism! He's allowed to introduce himself as 'not a religious man.' Yet he mulls around some nebulous touchy-feely version of heaven (this new-age interpretation of heaven is what annoys O'Reilly. Not the speculations of the existence of heaven from a supposedly non-religious person). I've seen a facinating documentary on this subject, "God on the Brain," which soberingly admits there is so much we don't yet know. Neuroscience like this is such an interesting subject, and it is a disservice to the actual scientists involved to resort to the same anecdotes and armchair speculation in lieu of meaningful research.
There is no evidence for the afterlife or a god. I discovered a great website that has fabulous articles on evolution and debunks the Bible and Christianity. WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM
A lot of things happen in your mind when trauma occurs. The mind is more powerful than we can imagine. I've had seizures that cause me to see images flashing across my path of vision right before it occurs. This is not my "life passing before my eyes." It is simply my brain going through processes that I, as a normal everyday citizen, do not understand.
I think that is what it all comes down to. Our brains are smarter than we are, and when they actually do something without our consent we think it is god. HA!
December 26th 1986 I was in an auto accident. I was propelled through the windshield of my car and suffered from a skull fractured in multipls places, fractured eye socket, broken cheek bone, broken nose, broken jaw, and i recieved over 100 sutures to close the various lacerations. I 'died" for about a minute. NO light, no tunnel,no family, just nothing.......Thats my NDE for what its worth, as valid as any other......sorry if I dissapointed any religous folks but death was like sleep w/o any cool dreams.
Atheism is not consistent with logic. It can be logically seen without respect to any religion that an infinite intelligence exists who is responsible for creating and sustaining our universe. This can be seen by using exactly the same logic as is used in the science of archeology, and applying it to more fuhndamental questions such as: "How did the dimensions of time and space, matter, energy, and life come to exist from nothing?" Just as archeological artifacts imply the existence of their intelligent creators, and the complexity of the objects reflect the intelligence of the objects creators, so do the existence of time, space, matter, energy, and life imply the existence of an infinite intelligence who trancends time, space, matter, energy, and life, who by definition is "God The Creator and Sustainer". Just as it would be illogical and incorrect to say that archeological artifacts randomly evolved from dirt, it would be illogical and incorrect to say that the dimensions of time and space, matter energy and life randomly evolved from nothing.
<span>" an infinite intelligence WHO trancends time, space,"</span>
Who ? Did you say: who ?
Dr. William L. Craig - is that you ? Hiding under the name: Claxon ?
<p><span><span><span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Atheism<span> </span>IS consistent with logic. It is consistent with logic to such degree that, if by any miraculous occurrence ( ask any of the reigning gods. They are experts on that sort of <span> </span>miracles.) - the logic disappear, <span> </span>the atheism goes with it as well.<span> </span>And, the reason.<span> </span>And,<span> </span>the rationality. And, the wisdom.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>The atheists of the world go down the toilet. No logic out there – no room for atheism.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>What kind of philosophy would exists then in such sterile environment ?</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>The religion !</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span></span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>continues below...</span></span></span></p>
<p><span><span><span>Atheism is not consistent with logic. continues...</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span></span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>The religion !</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>The religion doesn’t need any logic. The religion needs something of a completely different dimension. Something much more potent than logic.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>The religion needs a faith. Faith is a sacred word of the very essence of the religion. Logic kills religion. Faith makes it thrive. Logic is a poisonous virus and, if inflicted within the body of the religion – makes that incredible powerful organism die irrevocably. </span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>And, I repeat: The religion is the most powerful element of known to us civilization. Nobody can deny that. Roughly, <span> </span>90-95% of the world population observe the religious practises, teachings, philosophy and its moralistic (?) guidance.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Simple conclusion would suggest that the 95% of the homo primates on earth are possessing the very special ( god given) gifts of understanding the principia of biological life without employing the logic of the understanding the biological life’s principia. The magical formula ‘ God did it’ works seamlessly smooth. It’s an incredibly relaxing formula. It substitutes the logic incredibly well.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Even a slightest insertion of a logic virus <span> </span>into religion ( like the question: “How he did it” ? ) can completely ruin that blessed state of the brain’s idling and long lasting orgasm of total satisfaction.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>On the other hand – the remaining 5% of the world population ( atheists, scientists, free thinkers, high IQ fuckups) must be ( quite obviously) a delusional gang of complete idiots who are trying to find the logic in all that mess out there. </span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>And, I repeat: Quite obviously.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>C’mon guys.. Get real. Have a beer instead. Religion is here to stay. For a loooong time. Excruciating long time.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Mind boggling long time.</span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span> </span></span></span>
</p><p><span><span><span>Bless ya’ all.</span></span></span></p>
<span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span><span> continues...</span><span> </span>
<span> </span>
<span>The religion !</span><span> </span>
<span>The religion doesn’t need any logic. The religion needs something of a completely different dimension. Something much more potent than logic.</span><span> </span>
<span>The religion needs a faith. Faith is a sacred word of the very essence of the religion. Logic kills religion. Faith makes it thrive. Logic is a poisonous virus and, if inflicted within the body of the religion – makes that incredible powerful organism die irrevocably. </span><span> </span>
<span>And, I repeat: The religion is the most powerful element of known to us civilization. Nobody can deny that. Roughly,<span> </span>90-95% of the world population observe the religious practises, teachings, philosophy and its moralistic (?) guidance.</span><span> </span>
<span>Simple conclusion would suggest that the 95% of the homo primates on earth are possessing the very special ( god given) gifts of understanding the principia of biological life without employing the logic of the understanding the biological life’s principia. The magical formula ‘ God did it’ works seamlessly smooth. It’s an incredibly relaxing formula. It substitutes the logic incredibly well.</span><span> </span>
<span>Even a slightest insertion of a logic virus<span> </span>into religion ( like the question: “How he did it” ? ) can completely ruin that blessed state of the brain’s idling and long lasting orgasm of total, highly spirited satisfaction.</span><span> </span>
<span></span>
<span>continues below...</span>
<span>Atheism is not consistent with logic.</span><span> continues...</span><span> </span>
<span> </span>
<span>On the other hand – the remaining 5% of the world population ( atheists, scientists, free thinkers, high IQ nerds and fuckups) must be ( quite obviously) a delusional gang of complete idiots who are trying to find some logic in all that mess out there. </span><span> </span>
<span>And, I repeat: Quite obviously.</span><span> </span>
<span></span>
<span>C’mon guys.. Get real. Have a beer instead. Religion is here to stay. For a loooong time. Excruciatingly painful long time.</span><span> </span>
<span>Mind boggling long time.</span><span> </span>
<span> </span><span> </span>
<span>Bless ya’ all.</span><span></span>
god 8-) is awsome
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