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Yawn, more christian persecution complex in the form of "the war on christmas".
I just love when they puff out their chest and wish each other a "Merry Christmas!" at the end.Like we're all supposed to think, "Oh, snap!"
Sorry, but this is where I have to part company with many of my fellow atheists.Do we celebrate 12/25 as Christmas in this country or don't we? IMO, we do, and I have no problem calling it Christmas.Christmas can be as religious or as secular as you want it to be, but it's still called Christmas. Christmas is a western cutural tradition, and I celebrate it with the admittedly somewhat cornball notion of peace on Earth, godwill to all. You could beam in from Mars on Christmas day and I'd wish you a Merry Christmas.I have no problem with a manger scene on the courthouse lawn, either (as long as I'm not paying for it), as long as Santa Claus or Frosty the Snowman are there, too. It's just another fairy tale, so lighten up already.I think that not acknowleging the holiday as Christmas is a complete cop out by politically correct wusses.
<span>Sorry, but this is where I have to part company with many of my fellow atheists. Do we celebrate 12/25 as Christmas in this country or don't we? IMO, we do, and I have no problem calling it Christmas. Christmas can be as religious or as secular as you want it to be, but it's still called Christmas. Christmas is a western cutural tradition, and I celebrate it with the admittedly somewhat cornball notion of peace on Earth, goodwill to all. You could beam in from Mars on Christmas day and I'd wish you a Merry Christmas. I have no problem with a manger scene on the courthouse lawn, either (as long as I'm not paying for it), as long as Santa Claus or Frosty the Snowman are there, too. It's just another fairy tale, so lighten up already. I think that not acknowleging the holiday as Christmas is a complete cop out by politically correct wusses.</span>
Christians seem to think they have a monopoly on this time of year. Hell, even some atheists, apparently (Chuck) think that's the case. Sorry, but that just isn't true. This time of year holds significance for MANY cultures and religions...probably due to the ubiquity of the solstice around this time of year.Yes, Christmas is Christian. If the Tulsa churches want to get together and plan a parade for Christians, who cares? Nobody. The bottom line is that that the parade in question is a City of Tulsa event, and calling it a "holiday parade" is a wonderful effort to be inclusive of any and all cultural traditions in Tulsa who are celebrating a holiday now. It's not excluding Christians, as Gretchen and Senator Inhofe seem to think....it's simply ceasing to exclude everyone that is NOT a worshipper of Jesus Christ.
Some points are valid, but I have to take umbrage with " You could beam in from Mars on Christmas day and I'd wish you a Merry Christmas"That's part of the problem with many religious folks. Why do you ASSUME that I celebrate Xmas? That's pretty arrogant of one to think that everyone else celebrates the same holidays as you do.Hence the name Holiday over Christmas. Many of us DO NOT celebrate Christmas, even though it is kind of popular and many of our family and relatives celebrate it.And to have a manger on the courthouse lawn is just wrong, politically, morally and ethically. Again, it goes back to the arrogance that we all follow your beliefs.Put the manger on your own lawn, not on the lawn that is maintained by with my money. If you want to allow the manger and the Santa clause, then we need to put everyone else's deity and belief symbols up as well.
Why does it always seem that the bully who chases everyone away from the playground, have to lose his control of the territory so other kids can play?
"It's not excluding Christians, as Gretchen and Senator Inhofe seem to think....it's simply ceasing to exclude everyone that is NOT a worshipper of Jesus Christ."NICELY SAID!!!!
If it's a manger on public grounds, my taxes are in part paying for it. And because a representation of religious figures is tantamount to using government time (which equals government money) to practice religion by setting up idols that represent and reinforce the beliefs of that religion, the US Constitution and I have something to say about it.
Christains get picked on because they pick on others not like them. Duh!
Our family celebrates Christmas and we are atheist. The name can be whatever because we have moved beyond the Christan meaning for the word. We in no way associate Christmas with Christ. It is just a traditional celebration time.I feel many fellow atheist families are like us.
I think it is all abit hooey! What does it matter if they call it happy holiday, happy hanukah, happy Christmas or happy gobshite day.Christmas is as much a secular holiday as it is a religious one - santa clause, fairies, elves, xmas trees, none of these have anything to do with the Christian celebration of Christmas.Christmas literally means 'Christ's Mass,' which technically makes it a RC holiday - and I suspect many evengelicals would rather be seen dead then attend a Roman Catholic Mass.Just celebrate the season, and let people celebrate it how they wish.If a traditional holiday celebration as always been called a Christmas parade - then why not stick with it? However, we should scorn the 'indignation' of Christians who get upset because the name has been changed. That suggests that it is indeed a holiday just for Christians, rather than a holiday we can all celebrate - Christian or not!
"I'm not boycotting or anything... I'm just not gonna be there." bahahahaha.
@Chuck,You don't seem to understand that christians do not own the month of December or the winter festivals at the time of Solstice. "Christmas" as a celebration of christ's birth was fabricated in the 4th century and placed at December 25th specifically to quell and co-opt existing winter Solstice celebrations. So there is no legitimate claim to calling all winter season celebrations "Christmas." If you want to celebrate christmas that is fine, but the holiday season surrounding Sosltice should not be called christmas. It is disrespectful of all other beliefs and traditions to insist that public festivities are called by the name used by one religion.
True and I would add to what Skeptic said, that given that the parade is a City of Tulsa event it should be recognized as unconstitutional to call it a "Christmas" parade.
@Steama,Yeah but why not use the real name of the original winter celebrations: Solstice. Why use a word that means Christianity? You can have the same celebrations without tacitly endorsing religion.
@Chuck, I apologize for saying that you appear to not understand, that isn't a nice way to phrase things. I also appreciate that people hate political correctness. In this case though I don't think it stops there. The fact is christians are imposing their religion on others, it isn't just being PC to object to that. In fact, the indignant response of christians to changing the name is just the sort of superficial knee-jerk response that makes "political correctness" offensive.
This is so phony, how far is this crap going to go? Would he boycott because Santa was going to be there, but not Jesus?It's truly sad that the only point these people have is 'No we can't recognize any other holidays that occur in December except mine mine mine!'
It's ridiculous when he blamed Atheists for people wanting to say happy holidays. As an Atheist I celebrate Christmas, but I recognize not everyone celebrates Christmas such as Jews. It is respecting everyones beliefs, which benefits his own beliefs. The fact that he doesn't see that makes him an idiot. Everyone of every religion and belief should be behind this if they are for freedom of their religion.I wonder what Inhofe would say to a parade that was named the national satanists parade, and if they went around arrogantly implying everyone in the country does it.
I have no problem with calling christmas, christmas... Its no more or less of a christian holiday then any of the other holidays that the christain faith stole (Which is actually something preached against in the bible, which makes me laugh).The only way Christmas is a christian holiday is in the US, where you spend a shit load of money on the holiday & all that money has "In god we trust" written on it... Outside of that christmas is just a nice way to get together with the family.-M
I know what you meant here and feel the same, in fact I sometimes find myself wondering if Mr Hitchens wishes he had a different forename!!
I know what you mean here about avoiding words that unnecessarily invoke religion, and I agree with you - in fact I sometimes find myself wondering if Mr Hitchens is amused or annoyed by the irony of his forename!
Harold, no offense taken!My point is that "Christmas, Inc." is a western cultural juggernaut that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I completely understand all the arguments about christians usurping the solstice or that many people feel strongly about NOT celebrating Christmas, I just feel that it's a battle that I don't choose to fight. And I certainly don't mean to offend anyone by wishing them Merry Christmas. Of course, if I knew that an individual felt strongly about it, I wouldn't dream of offending them.My other point about PC is that we are so hamstrung by it in this country that, for instance (and not to get too far off topic), we cannot look the de facto evil that is Islam in the eye and call it so. Christianity is evil enough, but pales in comparison to Islam.
Yeah i dont tend to care what its called HOWEVER it may make a difference in some cercumstances. Clearly there are quite a few Christians who belive "Christmas" is some sort of validification of their belifs. By using the word Christmas you are only confirming what they belive. As a group we should show we have numbers and we are not in support of their supperstions.