Saturday, August 28, 2010

Bad Faith at Ground Zero

by Pat Condell


  1. I agree with Pat! In avoiding to be labeled racist, we often allow minorities to slide by when we shouldn't. This is one of those times, and Pat is right in saying that if America was to do this to an Islamic country, we'd be in deep shit.

    But please, everyone, tell me I'm a wacko conservative, which I'm not. I have a couple of Muslim friends who are on my side on this. They have the right to build this, but it's very distasteful.

  2. Sorry for you who think Pat is just toooo strident on every issue. I agree with him 100% on what he said in this clip. Where are the moderate Muslims? Why are they not condemning the radicals? Why they fear for their lives, thats why. "Might is right" really applies to Islam. So we know what face of Islam we will always see. Moderates have ben eliminated from any power in the religious clique. We have seen how entrenched the radicalisation of Islam has become and will continue to become. I wish I had a workable solution but I don't. I just know it is a huge threat (along with all the other fanatical religious types) to our Western way of life. Does anyone have a peaceful solution to this problem?
    All I know is that Obama kissing ass is not going to do it.

  3. It's 100% true that there is little 'moderation' in the Muslim world and virtually no condemnation of Jihad or the other atrocities that stem from strictly following Islamic teachings.

    BUT... that's a broader, more important, and simply different issue than this friggin' community center. Like has been mentioned many times... it's been appoved by the city long ago. It was NOT an issue before right wing media made it one... and the Daily Show proved that even Fox 'News' didn't care long before they decided they did!
    It's not 'in bad taste'. It's not even in view of 'the hole in the ground' that STILL has no Freedom Tower. Where's the outrage about that fact?
    Americans have the right to speak about this. The World has the right to speak about this.... but New Yorkers have by far the most right, and they mostly are ok with it.

    PLEASE Anti-Theist Atheists (of which I am one of), do not get keep getting SUCKERED by this stupid tiny rightwing invented non-issue. Focus on the big picture and the problems within Islam broadly in the U.S., U.K., Globally.

  4.  "Does anyone have a peaceful solution to this problem?"

    Yes. Moderate Muslims must challenge the radicals. Atheists can not get these people to change because we use logic and reason which they are totally immune to. I'm with Sam Harris in thinking that moderates prop up the radicals who know their 'holy books' better than the moderates and are in a twisted way... more logical than moderates.
    Islam has been moderate in the past. It can get there again. This stupid community center could very well help get these idiots to where us atheists want them to at least be. Again... we can't do it. They will never listen to us. The only things we can do are indirect. Like pushing education and western pop culture on them. That's a far stronger force than Atheist Logic (SADLY).

  5. 1) That's why we're better than an Islamic country that would prohibit the contstruction of non-mosques.
    2) The people building the mosque have absofuckinglutely nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11. They are not reponsible for what other people do in the name of their religion. Therefore the mosque's proximity to the cite of a terror attack is irrelevant.

  6. You people do know muslims were killed in 9-11 too, right?

    I think Pat got tricked into thinking this was a real issue when its really just our news media manufacturing a story that should have died about 2 weeks ago. There are important things we could be talking about right now and this isn't one of them.

  7. Sorry Pat, but you're wrong about this one. You clearly don't understand the US Constitution. Most of your fellow mosque opponents would be happy if the US were a christian theocracy.  This whole issue is another non-issue, distracting us from real issues like climate change and unemployment.

  8. If Pat were a Muslim, he'd be the suicide bomber kind.

  9. He just said there is nothing "legally" that can be done to stop it.

    Too fucking right there isn't. These people have a right to build, we don't like it but they're doing nothing illegal. This is why complaining about it is s damn pointless. Call it an insult, call it them rubbing our faces in the tragedy. It's no different to when we support blasphemy art exhibits that piss of religious people." type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

  10. Their right to build this mosque is protected by the first amendment. End of discussion. It doesn't matter if they build a 500 foot shrine to Osama bin Laden directly next to ground zero. We shouldn't compromise our single most important right as Americans for any reason.

    Is the mosque insensitive? Yes probably, but so what? It gives us ammunition so that we can use our first amendment rights and criticize "moderate" muslims for their actions, not just the actions of extremists. 

    The best possible response would be to just be insensitive back, and build the "Islam Sucks Museum" right next door with a giant caricature of Mohammed on the front. They are using their first amendment rights. Why aren't you using yours?

  11. R€LIGION Stinks of moneyAugust 29, 2010 at 2:03 AM

    No S it is not level playing field, if you erected a giant caricature of Mohammed, it would be taken down again because it would be cosidered hate speech. The cartoons never got printed. Religion enjoys a privelleged status

    I think this is  one of Pat´s better videos, and he covers some interesting area´s, such as the actual funding of the damned building.
    Cordoba....really? You don´t think a name like that is a cause for concern?

  12. <p>That's just an asinine remark. You silly.

  13. Thanks for KO embed.  That really summed it up for me.  I like a lot of what Pat says but this time I think he is off base because the opposition of this project will just play into the hands of the worst elements of all three versions of religious zealots that endanger our collective future.

  14. The background behind the name Cordoba and the reason they changd it to Park11 are discussed in the Olberman video. 

  15. Why is every Pat Condell video linked here? There are so many other well-spoken, atheists on youtube that focus on more important issues than the fucking community center that happens to be muslim focused being build TWO BLOCKS AWAY from ground zero. You can't even see ground zero from the "victory monument" as some insist on calling it.

    Stop linking every pat condell video on this site, unless you want to link rebuttals like coughlan's too.

  16. I would really apreciate it if people stoped using 100 pecent as if it acutally ment somthing.

  17. I agree with Joe. I'd like to add that I'm tired of people framing this as supporting the mosque or opposing the mosque.  I don't support or oppose this mosque (I'll even use the term even if I think community center is more accurate) any more than I support the construction of any church or synagogue. I'd like to live in a world without such nonsense, but I don't and they have the right under the Constitution to build it, so there is no sense in arguing about it. Again, this is an issue cooked up by a bunch of people who would be happy to turn the US into a christian theocracy. Many of them even admit it with their "America was founded as a christian nation" BS.

  18. I've said this before and I'm going to say it again - please stop featuring this guy on this otherwise wonderful blog. What a hateful, ignorant, knee-jerk reactionary twit. He has no idea what he is talking about. There are so many gross misunderstandings, half-truths and outright lies in this ridiculous video that I don't even know where to start. I am an atheist, a U.S. citizen, a New York City resident (I am looking at the East River and Brooklyn Bridge from my office window as I type this), I despise Islam and yet there is NO WAY I could ever justify opposing this project with even a minimal understanding and respect for U.S. law and "american ideals". Pat, you are as repulsive as any venom spitting mullah.

  19. More hate from Pat.

    Pat is not being called a racist but a bigot. Get it right folks! I know Pat wants to muddy the waters by claiming he is being called a racist - but Pat is using double speak - like Christians who claim that homosexuals are evil and out to destroy society and then cry that they are being persecuted when people disagree with them. Pat is doing the same - he is being bigoted, and when people disagree he calls them cowards, Pc's etc. Boo - hoo stop being a bigot Pat and people will stop calling you one.

    Also, will people get their facts right. Their is no Mosque being built next to Ground Zero. A Muslim community centre is being built two blocks from ground zero with a bookshop, swimming baths, theatre, cafe etc, within the building will be a prayer hall. It is not a Mosque.

    There is no legal reason to ban the community centre, as the campaigners themselves acknowledge. The right to assemble and worship freely is part of the American constitution - the opposers to the community centre are attacking the American constitution - but the neo cons do not care about the constitution, they have their own agenda to establish America as a Christian nation.

    They argue it is insensitive to the sacredness of the site. Yet there are strip clubs that have been re-opened closer to Ground Zero then the Muslim community centre. Amazing that a strip club does not violate the sacredness of the site, but a place of worship does? Come on folks get serious this is not about sacredness - it is trying to find a reason for bigotry.

    The argument against the Muslim community centre is really about one of collective guilt. The bigots want to say all USA Muslims are collectively responsible for 9/11. Such a view, apart from blatently false, is one full of hatred and intolerence.

    Stop the hatred Pat, stop opposing freedom of asembly andfreedom of worship. Stop calling banning, liberty. It is the opposite of liberty. In an earlu video you said you worshipped liberty as your religion, well then practie what you clain to worship, and stopp placing false idols of intolerence and hatred and calling it liberty.

    As for moderate Muslims not speaking out, they have been demonstrations involving 10,000's of Muslims in places like India condeming 'terrorists' as non-muslims. But of course knowing this kind of stuff does not fit in with the picture of Muslims that Pat (and others) have created inside their heads.


  20. Iam not agree with your post ,,
    If you interest call me