Saturday, March 27, 2010

Is Satan a Catholic?


by Pat Condell

9 comments:

  1. R€LIGION $TINKS OF MONE¥March 27, 2010 at 12:39 PM

    Whoa!

    I agree with everything he says, but it is nothing new and I am surprised he didn´t talk more about all the child rape and torture.

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  2. Found this on the net a few weeks ago:
    http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/01/04/the-crooked-cross-and-the-cross-nazism-and-christianity/#_ftnref9

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  3. This is really interesting. I wouldn't be found defending the middle-ages Catholic Church, so big points to Condell on taking up this daring critique.

    As for the holocaust, isn't it a mighty bold statement for a rationalist to make: "the holocaust wouldn't have happened were it not for the Catholic church." It's possible but uncertain. It's a proof of a non-existence (the holocaust without the existence of the Catholic church). The Catholic church did have a role in the prejudices against Jews inasmuch as the church in part reflects civil society and its evil. I've read plenty on European Catholicism but have not seen it as a theological position that Jews ought be treated with violence and discrimination.

    But more to the immediate point, it was amazing that from such a xenophobe as Condell would come a critique of the second-class status of Jews in Europe. What of the contemporary "Muslim problem" in Europe? Hasn't a certain variety of secularism brandished these people as "unassimilable" without addressing the inadequacy of a contemporary urban, alienating society which systemically limits the immigrant's political and social action? How is it that anti-Muslim bigotry became acceptable in Europe?

    The fault here is analogous to a certain view of the Israeli conflict as an "ageless battle between equally irrational beliefs" (my own characterization of a prevalent position.) To say these ills of the catholic church are derived from belief, as the European muslim "problem," as the Israeli conflict, does not acknowledge the political limitations in a seemingly 'demystified' reading of belief and violence.

    Yes, there are tremendous contradictions and terrors within the church, but which are to be addressed on a doctrinal tradition? That is, which can be alleviated with reference to lineages of moral thought, while which are to be brought into reform through a political intervention which in turn changes the nature of the church? Condell seems to deny the societal evils which make everyone complicit in structures of oppression and violence. It's simply not enough to say "we secularists have our shit straightened out, now you get to it," regarding the beautiful "freedom" that Condell loves to talk about, global capital for a start relegates 1.5 billion people to slums, seemingly without any dire moral contradiction. Yet, we aren't compelled to speak of the 'devil' in liberal-democratic freedom.

    Not that I deny the abstract, inalienable equality of humans despite their physical, emotional, cultural and intellectual differences; as a Christian that is.  

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  4. R€LIGION $TINKS OF MONE¥March 27, 2010 at 3:40 PM

    But more to the immediate point, it was amazing that from such a xenophobe as Condell would come a critique of the second-class status of Jews in Europe. What of the contemporary "Muslim problem" in Europe? Hasn't a certain variety of secularism brandished these people as "unassimilable" without addressing the inadequacy of a contemporary urban, alienating society which systemically limits the immigrant's political and social action? How is it that anti-Muslim bigotry became acceptable in Europe?  

    Which European countries are you refering to? Come to Denmark and you´ll see first and second generation muslims represented in all of our political party´s (apart from DF lol)and they are popular candidates too.
     I think that is a fantastic achievement considering that these people have only been in this country in a short period of time. There are hundreds of muslim associations and mosque´s even in this tiny country. The muslim workforce are represented in both private and state sectors. You will for example see muslim women with head scarves working in a variety of jobs and attending higher education. That would never happen in Turkey and Tunisia.
    Yes there are still prejudices on both side´s, but on the whole these migrants have done well for themselves.
    Check out the new danish documentary "My father from Haifa" here

    http://www.youtube.com/v/sgQBMGHmpcM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="170" height="140

    Even Palestinians here are starting to re-evaluate their opinions. 


    How you even can compare that of what the Jews, homosexuals and women have had to endure in Europe is insulting.

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  5. pat condel is a xenaphonbe, borderline racist daily mail reader, BNP hero.

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  6. Or, Cider, he's not a xenophobic racist, doesn't touch the daily mail, has nothing to do with the BNP, and you are incapable of distinguishing Criticism of a Religion from Irrational hate of an Ethnicity.

    I mean if you think of Muslim as being synonymous with an ethnicity, that's kind of racist.

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  7. Pat, I like you a lot but, why would you muddy Satan's reputation by comparing it with the Catholic church? 

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  8. With Pat's repeated request to consider what Jesus would think, I guess this video was directed firmly at the believers because as an atheist it really jarred to be asked to consider what an imaginary person might say and think in the real world as if it were a rational proposition.

    Still, I hope the video helps to add to the demands that the Catholic church is held accountable for its actions/inactions and failures of responsibility.

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  9. Actually Goebbels WAS excommunicated.

    Wait, that was for adultery.

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